Tuesday, November 7, 2017

Concerns emerging from Wake Forest?

Did Wake Forest expose some chinks in the armor? Or was it simply a little bit of a let down in a game that again was totally dominated by Notre Dame?

17 comments:

  1. Enjoy the journey/season ! why is coffey so negative?

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  2. [Part One}

    Okay, in follow-up to the exchange of comments for the prior podcast concerning Coffey’s calling for Kelly to be fired … let’s be honest here.

    First, Coffey’s position on Kelly is simply representative of the groupthink that predominately exists on NDNation re this subject. You can actually get yourself banned from that Site, merely as a result of taking the other side on this debate. If not banned, you certainly will be subject to ridicule over there and called a “fanboy” and worse. But I’d have to question to what degree Coffey is a leader vs. follower when it comes to Kelly. As a former band member, he’s never displayed much insight when it comes to football, and he does appear to change his stripes to a degree when he hooks up with Ed and Mike.

    Second, in 2012 there was a stampede of mea culpas over at NDNation concerning Kelly, which was really humorous to observe. But then that group of geniuses decided that 2012 was an outlier that would never be repeated. And I really doubt you’ll ever see those mea culpas repeated again, short of perhaps a national championship.

    Third, let’s analyze the merits of the question: Is Kelly a higher tier CFB coach? Of course the answer is an obvious “yes.” There is no real debate on this question. CFB analysts predominately agree, as do former respected ND coaches and players, and anyone with a modicum of discernment of CFB, which is sorely lacking at NDNation.


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    1. Too funny I had no idea Mike coffey was in the band, that explains why he does not ban A(hole)cross who is a former Band Geek as well. There are two types of people, those that want to be right and those that want to get things right, clearly coffey is a want to be right guy who will say anything to make himself look right. Coffey has proven that to be true several times, when he has never admitted to being wrong about anything. I think the only reason Ed and Mike have him on the show is so coffey will post the link to the show on ndnation. Coffey has been screaming for Brian Kelly's firing since the unfortunate death of Declan Sullivan. Had Notre Dame done what coffey was calling for we would have missed out on The Undefeated 2012 regular season. If coffey had NDNation in 1972 when Ara was coaching he would have been screaming for Ara to be fired before Ara won his second national title when he went 6 straight years without beating Southern Cal. Had coffey had ND nation in 1987 he would have been screaming for Lou Holtz to be fired after his second season when he then had a record of 13 and 10 at ND and lost his last 3 games of the year. Of course coffey would deny he would have called for the firing of Lou Holtz after the 87 season but the fact is he was calling for Brian Kelly to be fired after his second season when he was 16 and 10. The bottom line is guys like coffey are blowhards that should not be taken seriously.

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  3. [Part Two]

    Let’s just look at Coffey’s own analysis: “ND is winning this season because it's doing what smart people wanted for a long time -- using a ground-based offense with play-action passing to wear down opponents.” What nonsense. First, the offense does not even look that different than from recent years, except for the particular skill set that now exists at the QB position. Second, Kelly’s offense has never really been the problem – 2014 and 2015 being the obvious examples. The obvious difference-maker this year is the Defense. Duh. “Smart people?” Like who? Morons who think you win in CFB just by picking one system over the other? Please. Winning CFB is about recruiting good athletes, developing them physically and fundamentally, getting the right coaches to accomplish these things, and only after you do these things do Xs and Os and systems come into play, and clearly different systems can be successful, as Chip Kelly demonstrated at Oregon.

    The problem after 2012 was Van Gorder (and then the conditioning guy) and, yes, Kelly was too slow to show them the door. But CFB head coaches can have much worse failings than undue loyalty to their coaching hires. Kelly had past success with Van Gorder and Van Gorder had past success at Geo as a DC. The problem that Van Gorder developed (not unlike Weis) was attempting to make the complex NFL system he learned with the Jets to work at the college level.

    The HC is responsible for coaching hires and fires, and Kelly deserves as much credit for the recent hires as he deserved the blame for being slow to fire the guys who were not getting it done. He also is responsible for the recruiting and the other factors that are going into this year’s success, as occurred with his success in 2012 and near success in 2015.

    Is he at the level of Saban, Harbaugh and Meyer? The answer is “no,” until and unless he achieves their level of success. But to call for him to be fired when you cannot turn around and hire someone better is where Coffey and the bulk of NDNation are totally out to lunch. In addition to going too long with the wrong coaches, Kelly has had some extraordinary bad luck with injuries and suspensions. How many times has he lost his starting QB (which can sink most programs), let alone other key players? I don’t know whether it was Ed or who Mike talked about the luck this year … but it does look like some of ND’s horrible luck under Kelly (sans 2012) is finally turning around. Knock on wood …

    But to say, “We were right about Kelly” and “He’s now doing what we said he should do.” is just silly and ridiculous. You were wrong because you wanted him fired – period. You want to hire PJ Fleck? LOL Brilliant.

    But back to the beginning … where I said, “Let’s be honest.” The real reason that NDNation and Coffey have such a problem with Brian Kelly has always had more to do with personality than coaching success and acumen. They don’t like his perceived arrogance, short stature and sarcasm. There is nothing wrong with these traits if you win. How ridiculous would Belichick appear to the world if he were a sub .500 coach instead of winning so many Super Bowls?

    It just does no good to slam your own HC like they do at NDNation, when he has the basics to be successful. Mike and Ed are to be commended for avoiding that mistake in their own analysis of the Program.

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    1. Gen comment on your statement -"Is he at the level of Saban, Harbaugh and Meyer? The answer is “no,” until and unless he achieves their level of success.": Well thank God Kelly isn't at Harbaugh's level(!) since Harbaugh has done his share of contributing greatly to the stench of Big 10 (which actually has more than 10 teams, but those schools are slow at Calculus) football with 2 looses (case you didn't notice, Kelly has a better record), and Michigan is averaging 27 points per game. So yes, let's continue to hope Kelly stays above Harbaugh's level; he couldn't even beat lowly Penn State "cream puff beaters" who hasn't beaten a top 20 team yet. Likewise, let's rejoice Kelly is not playing at Suburban Myer's lower "level", since Iowa mopped the field with OSU, handing them their 2nd loss. So right, the answer really is "No" that Kelly is not performing down at their level.

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  4. I prefer to ignore Coffey, dont know him but may be dealing with NPD.

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  5. Do you think part of kabongs problem with our AD is the jumbotron? Since he was a band person and doesnt understand football is the jumbotron a threat to the band? He calls it Jacktron?

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  6. CTND, I don't have any particular affiliation with Coffey. Until the ND-Alabama Debacle I presumed that Coffey and Company were possibly too negative, but gradually I began to agree with their criticisms. Kelly was doomed after last year if he kept the status quo; Any astute observer can presume with confidence and a high degree of certainty that Swarbrick forced Kelly to make changes.

    Moreover, I disagree with your judgment that the offense this year isn't all that different. To the contrary, the difference is night and day. The offense is much, much tougher. Specifically, they can line up and gain three yards when the opponent knows the run is coming. That fact alone signals a critical difference.

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    1. BTS - last year was a perfect storm bad year. It really was a product of bad defense and lack of conditioning - both of which were fixed by getting new coaches for defense and conditioning. 2016 was not 2007, where we got blown out and did not belong on the same field as our opponents.

      We were competitive in so many games, but poor defense and inability to fnish killed us. Again, those coaching deficits were fixed. If Kelly were a real problem - you could not turn it around that quickly just by fixing those two coaching positions. When I heard that we hired the Wake Forest DC - I was very excited. I saw what he did to Louisville last year, which was very, very impressive for 3+ quarters. You can speculate that AD made him make the changes. But I remember his frustration over the defense lapses against MSU last year and his very vocal criticism of the D coaches. But what difference does it make? We went into 2016 highly rated, well fell on our faces and it got fixed the following year. If it does not get fixed, you can call on the coach to be fired.

      And I think you are wrong about us getting 3 yards whenever we want. Are you watching the same games? We very frustratingly fail on many of those short downs. Georgia game was obvious example. It was early but ... see if we can do that against Miami. The touchstone of our running game is the ability to break off the long ones, and Wimbush's ability to cross the goal line when we get into the red-zone. It's not about being able to reliably get those short yardage gains. We still have plays where QB makes delayed decision to hand off and RB has no momentum and gets stuffed - we are not Michigan or Stanford yet in running approach.

      And you conclude that Kelly cannot cut it in 2012? Really? We got to NC game with a redshirt freshman at QB, in Kelly’s 3rd year.

      This year, Harbaugh is getting his ass handed to him this year and Meyer just got blown out by 30+ points as a 17 pt favorite against a mediocre Iowa team in a must win game. I mean … it’s not like Meyer got blown out by a NC Bama team.

      Coaches have bad years and bad games.

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  7. Mike & Ed: Excellent job this year. For some reason, you've also really 'upped' your audio quality game - also excellent! Volumes and clarity far exceed past years (I'm thinking maybe $50K or so was included with the stadium/Jumbo tron contracts was set aside for your Audio Upgrades). I'm agreeing with Mike B. on Wake game... lot of good things did come out of it: Look how Claypool (6"4"/228) emerged from the shadows and shined; Ian Book was no slouch, big run, then TD pass. Yes, Miami's confidence riding High. Look at Miami total stats head-to-head vs. ND's; ND has clear edge except in Passing/Passing allowed. Miami's Rushing avg. seems anemic. Ed's right, Miami will be hyped up, and luck will play a role in game. Miami's speed also stuck out to me vs. the unquantifiable VT. But think about what a mega opportunity J. Adams will have to display his talents under a huge spotlight (including Lee Corso of Game Day wheeled out in a hand truck). If Josh seizes this moment, the OL continues to play possessed, and ND's D forces a few turnovers (as they've DONE ALL YEAR), ND can make some huge History with this game. Thanks again Guys...

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    1. We did switch some equipment and software editing tools out this year. Thanks for noticing. :)
      BTW, hype has really picked up down here in South Florida. Lots of coverage on the upcoming game.

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  8. So is the negativity a band geek situation as it relates to coffey

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  9. In tribute to Mike and Ed ... I'd just like to say that tonight's game against Miami is the most Important game of Kelly's career ... ;)

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    1. Ha! I'd go so far as to say that every game from now on is Brian Kelly's biggest game until he wins a National Championship at Notre Dame and then THAT game will be the biggest game of his career for evermore. :)

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  10. Not much can be said to defend Kelly after last night's beatdown. Pretty lame effort for the "big game."

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  11. Wimbush wasn't ready for that kind of an environment. I was at the game and the crowd was jacked up 3 hours before kickoff and they never let up. Deer in headlights is probably the best description. But he'll learn from this and ND will recover. Plenty of season left. Will be interesting to see how they respond.

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  12. I agree with Mike - it was Wimbush's first experience in that kind of environment, and it's not something you can replicate in practice. It's also hard to replicate the speed of Miami's line. That was probably as much as an outlier result as Ohio St. being blown out by Iowa. Play the game 10 times, and you don't see that result very much. As for the coaching - what was there to fix going into that game? It did seem more like execution than scheming. If that first drive is a TD, where Wimbush missed wide open WR for TD ... Geo blew out Miss. St., Auburn blew out Geo and Miss. St. was a play away from beating Bama. On any given Saturday .....

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