Kelly did not turn the ball over four times...his only fault would be that he burned a time out to call for the two point conversion. If it was on a chart as he indicated, the play should have come in without a time out. I admire him for his post game comments about "no moral victories.: Despite the weather, the crowd and the venue, this was a winnable game for the Irish.
As indicated below, Kelly lost this game in the first half. He was completely out coached. While the turnovers and penalties contributed, Kelly's inability to adjust is the real reason we didn't put points on the board in the first half. Like many other games over Kelly's career, his in game adjustments are horrible and his refusal to accept personal responsibility is unacceptable.
You can't blame the coach for four turnovers. He wanted to get the score down to a 10-point differential, because at that point, when he called for the first two-point conversion, our offense wasn't doing anything. He figured the chances were better to make up a 10-point differential than an 11-point differential.
Lew said you put points on the board when you can. There is no deb ate here. Kick the extra with that much time to go. It is automatic. This guy has NEVER managed time outs and the clock well. A tied game you go to OT. His legacy will be field turf and a big screen.
Offensively, turnovers and dropped passes sealed our fate Saturday night. Period.This created a necessity for the two conversions. Blaming the loss on the two point conversion “play call” is like stating “I had an accident because my brakes didn’t stop”….No, you had the accident because you were following too close! Go Irish! Who knows maybe we will meet again this season!
If you have the game still recorded by chance, re-watch the first half and notice Clemson defense playing 7-8 in the box to stop the run nearly the entire time and ask yourself if you would have done something different. Perhaps some screens and passes to the running back or tight end to force Clemson to soften up on the run?! Perhaps anything other than continue to do what wasn't working......run play after run play.
I don't think it's fair at all to lay blame squarely on Brian Kelly for this loss. There was plenty of blame to go around. It's going to be interesting to see where this team is at when we travel to Stanford. It will say a lot about Brian Kelly as a coach.
The two point conversion was a mistake, as it was against Northwestern last year. Seems to be a sticking point. HOWEVER, this loss is on the kids. Fumbles and dropped passes are NOT on the coaching staff, since we had so few TO's in the first 4 games. They didn't just 'forget' how to coach and play. I do agree we should have started passing sooner to open the box, but we still had plenty of opportunities to win this one running away if we just protect the football. The kids need to take some positives (not moral victories) from this effort and BLOW OUT NAVY. I don't think we're on any precipice, but I DO think we're still in it at 11-1.
Unknown/Norm/wiiliam: of course turnovers are committed by players and this was a team loss...but the game pressure that comes with playing catch up often leads to turnovers from trying to do too much. Brown was straining to get closer to the end zone when he fumbled and Kizer was forcing ball downfield on his pick trying to make a play when he had CJ uncovered in the flat. Lack of preparedness led to early deficit which led to game pressure which led to fuzzy thinking/over coaching and contributed to turnovers in my opinion.
Jim: coaching experience is irrelevant to this discussion. Is Pete Carroll immune to criticism for throwing from the one with Lynch in the backfield just because he's a Super Bowl Champion? Like BK says every Tuesday night on Showtime to his team..."do your job...just do your job...and we will win." Lots of our guys didn't do their jobs very well Saturday night, starting with the head coach.
Ronnie: first two point attempt was definitely not a necessity. Many watching that game felt that way while Prosise's touchdown was still under review and outcome was unknown. Also, I did not blame the loss on the final two pt conversion play call...I said it was a poor choice given what had worked/not worked for us during that game and given that it completely excluded our two best playmakers from the play.
Kelly is best Coach that we have had since Lou. That being said, I don't think we will ever see a statue of him outside the stadium. He is not a great game day Coach. Not sure why he continues to make the same mistakes that have cost us in the past, but he does.
Lou made one of the all-time game call blunders that cost us a National Championship, when he called time out inside the 10 yard line against BC, which preserved enough time for them to hit a game-winning FG. I remember yelling at the TV when he did it, and I had others relate doing the same thing.
ND fans never liked Dan Devine and were so happy to have him go .... until they got a fill of his replacement and now he has a statue. Seems the same if true for Kelly. If he wins a NC - he'll get his statue.
And a play call here or there is not what makes a great coach. It's recruiting and player development. How about that long FG that Saban tried giving Auburn a TD. You can always second guess play calls after the fact. Of course when they work ... everything is great - like the fake FG against Va -- he gets killed if it fails, but since it worked - no problem.
Every time Kelly has passed in response to defenses stacking the box - he gets killed on NDNation for not running enough. And now with the best running attack he's had and with the rain coming down in a hostile environment with a green QB - he tries to work the run and gets killed for it. If ND loses - he's an idiot to many fans regardless of what is called.
I guess people are still disappointed we did not get Stoops instead. Oh ... how did his undefeated Top 10 team just do against Tx? How's it working out at USC?
You'd think that fans would have more support for their own coach, and I think the silent majority does.
Cannot deny that Kelly cost us the game vs Northwestern last year and a shot at OT vs Clemson by chasing points on ill advised 2 pt decisions. Lou never threw his guys under the bus after big games without at least accepting blame for losses himself. Kelly is not even in the same neighborhood with Stoops, Lou, and Devine. Given the way college ball has changed over last 20 years we will never win another NC without an elite Coach. Kelly is good not great.
Lou had all kinds of flaws as a coach. As TV commentator, Bill Walsh used to kill him for his misuse of his personnel, and then when Walsh took over Stanford, Lou had the chance to get revenge, and instead got schooled by Walsh and much weaker athletes.
In 2012, Kelly schooled Stoops in his house with no better talent, and he would have beaten again in 2013 if he had not lost Golson to suspension. Kelly just destroyed Tx and Stoops lost to Tx. Kelly lost to Clemson at Clemson in a squeaker, and Stoops got blown out by Clemson 40-6 in last year's bowl game, while Kelly was beating LSU. Devine did everything he could to keep Montana on the bench, but eventually had to play him and Montana gave him his NC. Kelly got to the NC game with a freshman QB and has had the worst luck imaginable in losing personnel. If we don't lose Zaire we beat Clemson without too much trouble. You have to a decent QB to win, and Kelly has had the worst luck with QBs. Zaire and Wimbush have great talent and Kizer is good not great (so far) to use your phrasing.
Need to look at things over the long term. Lou win Pct at ND around 750. Won 23 games in a row. Kelly win Pct at ND just over 700. Bob Stoops has close to 800 win percentage at OU. Kelly got to the NC game with players he did not recruit and totally got his ass kicked in said game. Lots of excuses for Kelly. If my aunt had balls, then she would be my uncle.
Kizer has been really good so far. Not exactly the right fit for the system we run, but I think he shows tons of promise and has been a pleasant surprise considering the situation he has been put in. Not sure about Wimbush or Zaire cuz I have not seen a whole lot of them. As far as Pro potential, my though is that Kizer has the best make up of the three since the NFL is not very kind to running QBs.
Bill Walsh had a really good team the year he beat ND. Finished #9 in the polls and beat Penn State in a bowl game. The next 2 years Lou's teams pounded Stanford and the great Mr. Walsh staggered into retirement after two losing seasons.
Agree need to look over long haul. If you judge Kelly based upon his being stuck with Tommy Rees, you're going to reach the wrong conclusion. He got to 2 NC games in the lower Division, had an undefeated Reg Season team at Cincy and an undefeated Reg Season in his third year at ND. He had long stretch of Reg season wins with Golson starting at QB.
If you don't have the discernment to get it now - you'll see it over the long run. Ara and Lou could both see it, along with numerous former players, but for the average fan it's harder to tell.
The ND running game this year was built for Zaire, and now they have had to retool for Kizer. Who is built for NFL at QB is completely irrelevant. How many NCs did Tebow win? Wimbush is the most talented of the three, and I expect Kelly to have his best Seasons with that lad.
It's funny that I feel somewhat the opposite of others on Kelly and game adjustments. I feel like they take the first half, and come out really strong in the second half. Making all of the adjustments needed to win, every game. This one had fumbles, a couple bad play calls, and one key missed penalty (pass interference!!!!). The reason I love college football so much. Kids making mistakes can cause the best team in the nation to loose a game. The season is far from over fellas. Do be going for two just yet. ;)
Kelly did not turn the ball over four times...his only fault would be that he burned a time out to call for the two point conversion. If it was on a chart as he indicated, the play should have come in without a time out. I admire him for his post game comments about "no moral victories.: Despite the weather, the crowd and the venue, this was a winnable game for the Irish.
ReplyDeleteAs indicated below, Kelly lost this game in the first half. He was completely out coached. While the turnovers and penalties contributed, Kelly's inability to adjust is the real reason we didn't put points on the board in the first half. Like many other games over Kelly's career, his in game adjustments are horrible and his refusal to accept personal responsibility is unacceptable.
DeleteFOR $4,000,000 A YEAR, WE DESERVE MORE THAN ONE GREAT YEAR.
ReplyDelete"Nearly" great year.
ReplyDeleteYou can't blame the coach for four turnovers. He wanted to get the score down to a 10-point differential, because at that point, when he called for the first two-point conversion, our offense wasn't doing anything. He figured the chances were better to make up a 10-point differential than an 11-point differential.
ReplyDeleteWhere was the defense in the 1st quarter?
ReplyDelete5 Dropped passes 2 we're TD's. Clemson is not a great team we only made them look that way. I never thought Kelly was a good a good game day coach.
ReplyDeleteLew said you put points on the board when you can. There is no deb ate here. Kick the extra with that much time to go. It is automatic. This guy has NEVER managed time outs and the clock well. A tied game you go to OT. His legacy will be field turf and a big screen.
ReplyDeleteHow many football teams have you coached? How many National Championships (or championships of ANY kind) have you coached a team to win?
DeleteOffensively, turnovers and dropped passes sealed our fate Saturday night. Period.This created a necessity for the two conversions. Blaming the loss on the two point conversion “play call” is like stating “I had an accident because my brakes didn’t stop”….No, you had the accident because you were following too close!
ReplyDeleteGo Irish! Who knows maybe we will meet again this season!
If you have the game still recorded by chance, re-watch the first half and notice Clemson defense playing 7-8 in the box to stop the run nearly the entire time and ask yourself if you would have done something different. Perhaps some screens and passes to the running back or tight end to force Clemson to soften up on the run?! Perhaps anything other than continue to do what wasn't working......run play after run play.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's fair at all to lay blame squarely on Brian Kelly for this loss. There was plenty of blame to go around. It's going to be interesting to see where this team is at when we travel to Stanford. It will say a lot about Brian Kelly as a coach.
ReplyDeleteIt would sure be nice if Kelly would accept any responsibility for his inability to make adjustments in the first half.
DeleteThe two point conversion was a mistake, as it was against Northwestern last year. Seems to be a sticking point. HOWEVER, this loss is on the kids. Fumbles and dropped passes are NOT on the coaching staff, since we had so few TO's in the first 4 games. They didn't just 'forget' how to coach and play. I do agree we should have started passing sooner to open the box, but we still had plenty of opportunities to win this one running away if we just protect the football. The kids need to take some positives (not moral victories) from this effort and BLOW OUT NAVY. I don't think we're on any precipice, but I DO think we're still in it at 11-1.
ReplyDeleteIt's on Kelly. Bad calls on the conversions. Not the first time.
ReplyDeleteUnknown/Norm/wiiliam: of course turnovers are committed by players and this was a team loss...but the game pressure that comes with playing catch up often leads to turnovers from trying to do too much. Brown was straining to get closer to the end zone when he fumbled and Kizer was forcing ball downfield on his pick trying to make a play when he had CJ uncovered in the flat. Lack of preparedness led to early deficit which led to game pressure which led to fuzzy thinking/over coaching and contributed to turnovers in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteJim: coaching experience is irrelevant to this discussion. Is Pete Carroll immune to criticism for throwing from the one with Lynch in the backfield just because he's a Super Bowl Champion? Like BK says every Tuesday night on Showtime to his team..."do your job...just do your job...and we will win." Lots of our guys didn't do their jobs very well Saturday night, starting with the head coach.
Ronnie: first two point attempt was definitely not a necessity. Many watching that game felt that way while Prosise's touchdown was still under review and outcome was unknown. Also, I did not blame the loss on the final two pt conversion play call...I said it was a poor choice given what had worked/not worked for us during that game and given that it completely excluded our two best playmakers from the play.
Above was from Ed, aka Domer
ReplyDeleteKelly is best Coach that we have had since Lou. That being said, I don't think we will ever see a statue of him outside the stadium. He is not a great game day Coach. Not sure why he continues to make the same mistakes that have cost us in the past, but he does.
ReplyDeleteLou made one of the all-time game call blunders that cost us a National Championship, when he called time out inside the 10 yard line against BC, which preserved enough time for them to hit a game-winning FG. I remember yelling at the TV when he did it, and I had others relate doing the same thing.
DeleteND fans never liked Dan Devine and were so happy to have him go .... until they got a fill of his replacement and now he has a statue. Seems the same if true for Kelly. If he wins a NC - he'll get his statue.
And a play call here or there is not what makes a great coach. It's recruiting and player development. How about that long FG that Saban tried giving Auburn a TD. You can always second guess play calls after the fact. Of course when they work ... everything is great - like the fake FG against Va -- he gets killed if it fails, but since it worked - no problem.
Every time Kelly has passed in response to defenses stacking the box - he gets killed on NDNation for not running enough. And now with the best running attack he's had and with the rain coming down in a hostile environment with a green QB - he tries to work the run and gets killed for it. If ND loses - he's an idiot to many fans regardless of what is called.
I guess people are still disappointed we did not get Stoops instead. Oh ... how did his undefeated Top 10 team just do against Tx? How's it working out at USC?
You'd think that fans would have more support for their own coach, and I think the silent majority does.
Cannot deny that Kelly cost us the game vs Northwestern last year and a shot at OT vs Clemson by chasing points on ill advised 2 pt decisions. Lou never threw his guys under the bus after big games without at least accepting blame for losses himself. Kelly is not even in the same neighborhood with Stoops, Lou, and Devine. Given the way college ball has changed over last 20 years we will never win another NC without an elite Coach. Kelly is good not great.
DeleteLou had all kinds of flaws as a coach. As TV commentator, Bill Walsh used to kill him for his misuse of his personnel, and then when Walsh took over Stanford, Lou had the chance to get revenge, and instead got schooled by Walsh and much weaker athletes.
DeleteIn 2012, Kelly schooled Stoops in his house with no better talent, and he would have beaten again in 2013 if he had not lost Golson to suspension. Kelly just destroyed Tx and Stoops lost to Tx. Kelly lost to Clemson at Clemson in a squeaker, and Stoops got blown out by Clemson 40-6 in last year's bowl game, while Kelly was beating LSU. Devine did everything he could to keep Montana on the bench, but eventually had to play him and Montana gave him his NC. Kelly got to the NC game with a freshman QB and has had the worst luck imaginable in losing personnel. If we don't lose Zaire we beat Clemson without too much trouble. You have to a decent QB to win, and Kelly has had the worst luck with QBs. Zaire and Wimbush have great talent and Kizer is good not great (so far) to use your phrasing.
Need to look at things over the long term. Lou win Pct at ND around 750. Won 23 games in a row. Kelly win Pct at ND just over 700. Bob Stoops has close to 800 win percentage at OU. Kelly got to the NC game with players he did not recruit and totally got his ass kicked in said game.
DeleteLots of excuses for Kelly. If my aunt had balls, then she would be my uncle.
Kizer has been really good so far. Not exactly the right fit for the system we run, but I think he shows tons of promise and has been a pleasant surprise considering the situation he has been put in. Not sure about Wimbush or Zaire cuz I have not seen a whole lot of them. As far as Pro potential, my though is that Kizer has the best make up of the three since the NFL is not very kind to running QBs.
DeleteBill Walsh had a really good team the year he beat ND. Finished #9 in the polls and beat Penn State in a bowl game. The next 2 years Lou's teams pounded Stanford and the great Mr. Walsh staggered into retirement after two losing seasons.
DeleteAgree need to look over long haul. If you judge Kelly based upon his being stuck with Tommy Rees, you're going to reach the wrong conclusion. He got to 2 NC games in the lower Division, had an undefeated Reg Season team at Cincy and an undefeated Reg Season in his third year at ND. He had long stretch of Reg season wins with Golson starting at QB.
DeleteIf you don't have the discernment to get it now - you'll see it over the long run. Ara and Lou could both see it, along with numerous former players, but for the average fan it's harder to tell.
The ND running game this year was built for Zaire, and now they have had to retool for Kizer. Who is built for NFL at QB is completely irrelevant. How many NCs did Tebow win? Wimbush is the most talented of the three, and I expect Kelly to have his best Seasons with that lad.
It's funny that I feel somewhat the opposite of others on Kelly and game adjustments. I feel like they take the first half, and come out really strong in the second half. Making all of the adjustments needed to win, every game. This one had fumbles, a couple bad play calls, and one key missed penalty (pass interference!!!!).
ReplyDeleteThe reason I love college football so much. Kids making mistakes can cause the best team in the nation to loose a game. The season is far from over fellas. Do be going for two just yet. ;)